I thought we could just enter a record shop, even though we're remote: what section would you start with if you were just entering any record shop?

I would start with whatever they have on display. I always like it because it's always usually pretty expensive, kind of rare stuff. I guess most of the time.

Right. They show off.

Yeah, they show off. So I usually like looking at them, but then I immediately try to find the cheapest section and I'll go through the dollar, two dollar or five dollar bin. Human Head has a five dollar soul section that is so good. And I find all kinds of stuff in there. But yeah, I mean, I try to spend a little bit of time and it really depends on the organization of the place, you know, because every shop's a little different with what they specialize in. I got really into 45s, which is like a whole other universe. I have a decent collection—I went through a phase where I was only buying 45s.

So what made you get into 45s?

They're just so cute. I like it. I also really like, on any turntable, to play around with speed and stuff. I just really like playing around. I have like my little turntable system here, an RPA.

Right, with the S.P. 404? Is that how you sample stuff?

Yeah. When I actually was working at Human Head, I worked there the first year that they were open and I literally would bring my my 404 and just hook up to a turntable. There was like no foot traffic when I was working. So I was just in there by myself for 8 hours a day.

The dream, kind of the dream!

You know. I literally would just listen to music all day and get paid to just hang out and learn about music.

So your go-to would be more like soul and R&B stuff?

Yeah, definitely initially. But I really like finding weird sound effect stuff—stuff that I can sample and stuff that I can mess around with. What about you?

I started getting records when I was interning at this promo agency back in 2006. It was a weird era to start collecting records because people were getting rid of them. It's exactly the moment where iTunes and mp3s became this new thing that people believed in. Then everyone was like, oh yeah it's the death of the vinyl, and the slow death of the CD. So people were getting rid of their entire collections. So it's weird because I started basically getting loads of records for cheap or for nothing, just because people were getting rid of them. So then I learned how to deejay in bars. One of my friends had a residency at a bar and he was like "Let me show you how to do this." Like, fade in, fade out—really easy stuff. He wasn't trying to show me how to do a speed match or anything... But I just got hooked. And so by the time we had our own night, I was like, OK, now I want to buy hits. So I was spending my lunch money on records! I started buying hits from the time, so 2006 is like Justin Timberlake “Sexy Back” and Neptunes stuff. But then I think it's really when I started travelling to the US that I was going to record shops and second hand record shops, and that's where I would just buy stuff that I knew. Because I didn't have a turntable, I didn't have equipment. I was just a student. I was curious, but I didn't really know what to get into. And that's how I started my collection, with a lot of soul compilations, actually. I was like, "Oh, I know this song. I know that song!" And then because I would recognize a song and be like, fuck it, I'll just get this compilation and then I'll discover everything else on it. I don't know. I guess by 2010, I just got really deep into finding the originals to stuff that was sampled in hip hop.

Yeah, that's a fun little discovery.

And I think that's how it opened the door to the fact that, yes, I actually like hip hop, but what I truly like is soul and jazz and everything that stems out of that. And my obsession wasn't so much about what was contemporary, but it was more about wanting to be at record shops and ask a million questions. That's what got me really deep into the soul stuff and into some of the jazz that I call dancy jazz that you could totally mix with disco—like really fast, weird jazz, but that's funky.

Yeah. I'm trying to think of an example.

Well, you know this one? Sunbear?

So this to me is very funky, but still really jazzy and really weird. And it's giving disco but it's not really disco.

Right. That cover is insane.

Right. And then the guys look so cool too, you know, and then by going into record shops, you learn to read the covers. Right? You learn about producers and then you learn about the musicians. And all of a sudden you have all this information and they become kind of like signposts or signals, like you're going through records that you don't know. But you're like, "I know I'm going to like this because Ernie Watts is on the alto and the flute." You know, stuff like that. Yeah, I think that was kind of the learning process of knowing how to dig for myself. But like you, I was also asking "what's expensive and why is it expensive?"

Yeah. Like what? I've never heard of this record before! The amount of stuff that gets pressed or how much of an album gets pressed too, obviously has a lot to do with that. And some shops just have a really good way of finding stuff that they know will sell, things that are rare. They just know how to look for stuff, to look for things that are rare. It's like they have some kind of inside, they have some kind of knack for finding this catalogue of all these really interesting kinds of music that you don't know about because it's like you're walking into a library, you're walking into a library, like a bookshop. You're walking into a lot of information.

I find that with libraries you have the genre of style of writing and then the author. And then kind of the era. And these are the things that will define the content. Right? But with records, it's the musicians. Like where did they record? Like what was the music influenced by locally? So, you know, typically you have Minneapolis and Prince. Or you, you're from Washington and I was telling you how I've never set foot in Washington, and yet so much of my teenage life was influenced by music that was made there. So, you know, so I feel like with records you have like these weird connections that come from everywhere at every angle because it just takes X more amount of people to make a record than a book.

I also feel like I got to a point where, if I didn't know what something was then the visuals, the artwork would really draw me to it. It's such an important part of the pairing of music, how it is visually represented.

I agree. I actually wondered if, how like some thrift stores sort the clothes by colour. I always wondered if you could do that with records? Imagine having a record shop and be like "Here are all the sleeves with booties! Here are all the sleeves with the band! Here are all the sleeves with a portrait! Here are all the sleeves with a guitar!"

Speaking of records with booties on it. I've been listening to this: “Invasion of the Booty Snatchers”.

The artwork is insane!

Yeah, oh my god. This is Parlet’s Invasion of the Booty Snatchers, produced by George Clinton and Ron Dunbar. It's literally all the funk people, funkadelic and all the Funkadelic Parliament line up. This is from 1979.

I definitely have a few that I bought just for the cover. Like _Sophisticated Funk_ by Jack McDuff. And it's literally a snatch.

Oh my fucking god. Hold on, that reminds me of this cover.

Yeah, of course, Gal Costa I have it too!

Yeah, it's like the same cover! It's so cool.

What else have I got? I have these on my piano: records that I produced, or was a part of. This was a part of this Pink Siifu album, _NEGRO_. I produced track 7, I think. I've been kind of moving around recently, so half of my records are in storage and then half of them are at my old house. Ooh, this is a really, really beautiful album.

Oh, yeah. I mean, anything from Black Jazz is insane! So it's like a compilation? Doug Carn and his wife Jean Carn?

Yeah, featuring the voice of Jean Carn.

And _Infant Eyes_ is the other one, that's I guess the first one I knew about. I got really into a lot of Brazilian records. I think this is one of my favourite albums of all time.

I don't know that one.

It’s Eugene MacDaniels _Headless Heroes of the Apocalypse_.

He was an amazing songwriter, he's one of my favourite songwriters. I have a little handful of records that I have with me right now.

But know, it's funny that you mentioned Brazilian music because the first track in my selection was a Brazilian tune. Because that was kind of one of my other questions. I feel like in music in general, on any records the opening track is so important. Right. And I feel the same way about mixes—the first track I play is going to decide for everything else. It's going to set the tone. And I gotta tell you (I'm sorry, this is my minute of fandom) but the opening track on your last album is insane! I play it on repeat—

Oh my god...

I've already played it about 150 times. I love it for many reasons. Well, the arrangement is amazing. Your voice is amazing because you're using it as an instrument. But then the outro to the tune…

Wow, thank you. That's so sweet. It's so nice of you. I really like that song—and you have to kind of love your own stuff to put it out there in the world. But I really was proud of that. That one went through so many phases of writing, I wrote so many different things for that song.

Really? What did you get first? Did you have the piano first or did you have a hook?

I actually wrote it first on my synth. And then I was just humming the melody on these chords. It's weird. I kind of don't remember how I come up with most stuff. It just happens. It's like this weird thing that happens—you kind of become something else. You're not thinking about anything..

Yeah. And then you like it or you don't like it. So I guess that's how I felt. So the Brazilian record that I wanted to play you as an opener... What I had in mind for this conversation was to pick an opening track just from my collection, one track that I would play for you that kind of summarizes a reflection of how I feel right now, what I've been listening to and what I need to hear. Something to set the tone to our conversation—sort of where I would want us to sit in our feelings. Does that make sense? Is it okay if I play it for you? Maybe you will know it.

Don’t tell me what it is yet. Is it in Portuguese?

I mean, it doesn't really have lyrics. It's one of those opening tracks.

Sounds like something that Milton would do, right? I grew up listening to a lot of Brazilian music because of my family. My dad really liked Milton Nascimento and Gaetano Veloso. My friend actually showed me this guy, he's a piano player named César Camargo Mariano and he's a really crazy piano player. And he has this one record that I feel like you would really like. It's really funky and all instrumental.

I mean, I think that's what I really like about Brazilian music—the range of it. It's anything from Forro to Bossa Nova to like, you know, even more traditional stuff. And then the psychedelic stuff like Os Mutantes. And then the thing is, I've honestly been listening to loads of Brazilian music lately, I think essentially because I'm a bit blue at the moment and also because I'm learning the guitar.

Oh, fuck yeah!

And you know what? I'm learning the guitar because it's kind of the only thing that is soothing to me at the moment.

What kind of guitar do you have? Is it acoustic?

Yeah, I bought it with my first ever paycheck when I was 15, and I tried to teach myself, wanted to take lessons but never did, and now I’m taking lessons for real. This time around I’m not letting it go. I really love it, it’s therapeutic, I feel like Brazilian music has tapped into that frequency where it’s sad, but also happy—it’s soothing.

That reminds me, you know this one, “Acabou Chorare”

Acabou chorare, “I’ve finished crying.”

I’m really trying to learn Portugese, cause I love the music and I listen to it so much, but it’s like, what are they saying?

And you do speak Spanish, it’s similar.

So how many languages do you speak?

I speak French, English, Chinese, Spanish, I can guess Portuguese, and sort of understand German too. It’s funny because I’m literate in languages, but not in instruments. I wish I could play the piano and drums and guitar.

I’m like very self taught, I went to music school but I didn’t go for instruments, I went for my voice, so I taught myself. I grew up around people who played instruments, my younger brother was a big reason why I started learning piano, ‘cause he was so into guitar. I started with piano. The same way you learn all these different languages, music is the same thing. Even if I don’t understand Japanese of Portuguese, there’s still an aura or connection that you have to things you might not understand. Maybe it finds you in the right place.